Posts by Ultimate Axiom

32

Raised On the Third Day?

by TTATTelder in

i have some potentially controversial questions.. i have always wondered about these things in the back of my mind, but i would immediately dismiss them.

now i am giving myself permission to explore them further.... a lot of attention is given to how big the sacrifice was on the part of jesus and god when jesus laid down his life.

as the story goes, jesus gave his life for our sins and then was miraculously raised back to life a couple of days later.. consider this.

Ultimate Axiom

Apognophos said “That's not the issue of universal sovereignty according to JWs.”

I disagree. Fundamentally Jehovah effectively said to man, “you need me to rule over you”, and He said to Satan, “man will serve me anyway, not just for the benefits”. In both cases, man and Satan (plus all the angels that followed Satan) said, “God you’re wrong, and if you give us the opportunity, we’ll prove it” And Jehovah of course wasn’t clever enough to realise that you don’t need to prove an axiom and went along with it.

And therein lies a paradox. As you don’t need to prove an axiom, in so doing Jehovah made a mistake. Therefore it cannot be axiomatic that he is infallible. But if he’s not infallible, he can’t be the Almighty God. But if He is the Almighty God, it must be axiomatic that he can’t be wrong. But he was wrong in thinking he needed to prove an axiom – and so round and round in circles we go.

It’s axiomatic to me that this whole things is nonsense.

32

Raised On the Third Day?

by TTATTelder in

i have some potentially controversial questions.. i have always wondered about these things in the back of my mind, but i would immediately dismiss them.

now i am giving myself permission to explore them further.... a lot of attention is given to how big the sacrifice was on the part of jesus and god when jesus laid down his life.

as the story goes, jesus gave his life for our sins and then was miraculously raised back to life a couple of days later.. consider this.

Ultimate Axiom

I didn't think about this until the film Jesus Christ Superstar came out and it has Judas singing, "Who are you? What have you sacrificed?" Like you TATTElder, I started to think, this doesn’t make sense.

And on the universal sovereignty issue mentioned by Comatose, none of that makes sense to me either. If we, as humans, acknowledge that God cannot make mistakes, cannot be wrong, then it doesn’t need to be proved (the ultimate axiom if you like). And if we know that, then all the angels must have known that as well. So why did Jehovah throw his whole creation into chaos and evil to prove something that doesn’t need proving? Not one of those angels would have thought, “hold on Jehovah, we think Satan’s got a point, we think you may be wrong here.” To which Jehovah replied, “oh dear, I’d better prove myself then hadn’t I”. And then 6000 years of evil follow. Where's the logic in that?

37

Am I missing something here ?

by smiddy in

in ancient times , o.t.speak, god dealt with humans in a variety of ways , dreams ,visions ,prophets,and prophetesses , then apparently 2000 years ago he must have said, i`m not doing this anymore.they , my followers will just have to beleive and put faith in what has been written down up untill the 20th century of the common era.

approximately 4000 years of human history where god has communicated with humans .

if you beleive that .. their has been no communication between god , with any human , whether by dreams , visions , or prophets , for the past 2000 years.. and may i add, their has been no communication from jesus during these past 2000 years either, giving us enlightend /updates about his sayings /prophecys that he gave while on earth 2000 years ago.. please explain.. smiddy.

Ultimate Axiom

I am not aware that Jesus wrote down anything. Well, anything that has survived anyway.

48

Crazy JW urban legend

by Simon in

a sure guarantee that this was bogus (really, any reasoning is required at all?

) was that it did the rounds applied to john denver, annie lennox and others.. basically, they relied on satan (oh yes) for their musical ability (i knew it) and any jws in the audience would be asked to leave because ... (drum roll) ... they blocked the signal to satan so couldn't perform with them present!.

anyone else remember that gem?.

Ultimate Axiom

There are quite a few threads on this subject here - just do a search on John Denver. Here's a few;

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/social/entertainment/127499/1/John-Denver-v-Jay-Leno#.Uq2Nc1LlMlE

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/experiences/168933/1/Is-it-true-John-Denver-asks-any-Witnesses-to-leave-his-concert#.Uq2NpFLlMlE

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/32547/1/Did-John-Denver-hate-the-Witnesses#.Uq2NwVLlMlE

37

Am I missing something here ?

by smiddy in

in ancient times , o.t.speak, god dealt with humans in a variety of ways , dreams ,visions ,prophets,and prophetesses , then apparently 2000 years ago he must have said, i`m not doing this anymore.they , my followers will just have to beleive and put faith in what has been written down up untill the 20th century of the common era.

approximately 4000 years of human history where god has communicated with humans .

if you beleive that .. their has been no communication between god , with any human , whether by dreams , visions , or prophets , for the past 2000 years.. and may i add, their has been no communication from jesus during these past 2000 years either, giving us enlightend /updates about his sayings /prophecys that he gave while on earth 2000 years ago.. please explain.. smiddy.

Ultimate Axiom

ablebodiedman said, “Everything Jesus Christ said would happen 2000 years ago is really happening right now” and then goes on to say, “He also told us what he would do and say when he does return! The fact that he has not yet returned and said those things…”, which contradicts the first statement for clearly, “Everything” isn’t happening right now - Matt 24:29-31 for example. As for the rest of what Jesus said, well that's been going on since forever, not just now.
TEC said regarding Moslems, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews etc, “He speaks to all. He is standing at the door and knocking. Some cannot hear Him”. Of course they can’t hear him, how can an isolated Buddhist in outback Tibet hear him unless he actually speaks? You know, speaks with a voice like he did to Noah and Jonah. And regarding the prophets like Noah etc, TEC said, “He speaks the same way now” Please tell us who this modern day Noah is. What’s his name and address? I would like to get in touch with him.

37

Am I missing something here ?

by smiddy in

in ancient times , o.t.speak, god dealt with humans in a variety of ways , dreams ,visions ,prophets,and prophetesses , then apparently 2000 years ago he must have said, i`m not doing this anymore.they , my followers will just have to beleive and put faith in what has been written down up untill the 20th century of the common era.

approximately 4000 years of human history where god has communicated with humans .

if you beleive that .. their has been no communication between god , with any human , whether by dreams , visions , or prophets , for the past 2000 years.. and may i add, their has been no communication from jesus during these past 2000 years either, giving us enlightend /updates about his sayings /prophecys that he gave while on earth 2000 years ago.. please explain.. smiddy.

Ultimate Axiom

I love it to hear how Christians think Jesus really DOES communicate with mankind today - pity he’s so selective and leaves out all the Moslems, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews etc etc. And where are the prophets like Noah, Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Jonah etc, who he spoke to audibly so they didn't have to interpret visions?

I’m with you smiddy – he if was so talkative for 4000 years, why has he been so silent for the past 2000? Could it be he was never there in the first place?

34

1973 "Divine Victory" International Assemblies

by Bungi Bill in

jw
friends

how many here attended the "divine victory" international assembly that was held 12- 16 december in christchurch, new zealand?.

the venue was lancaster park.

if the truth be known, that stadium was probably a casualty of the february 2011 earthquake?.

Ultimate Axiom

I attended it in Twickenham, London. I believe the book God's Kingdon of a Thousand Years has Approached was also released then. And what a bore that was.

25

Rutherford Says 1925 Was Just His Opinion

by baldeagle in

1980 yearbook pp.

61-63 france 1925a critical year.

the year 1925 got off to a good enough start, with the french watch tower magazine being enlarged from 12 to 16 pages.

Ultimate Axiom

Before the event such proclamations are ‘facts’;

“We have no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of 1874, 1914, 1918, and 1925. … There can be no more question about 1925 than there was about 1914. The fact that all the things that some looked for in 1914 did not materialize does not alter the chronology one whit.” (Watchtower, May 15, 1922, pages 147 and 150).

“in accordance with the soundest laws known to science - that we affirm that, Scripturally, scientifically, and historically, present-truth chronology is correct beyond a doubt. … Present-truth chronology is a secure basis on which the consecrated child of God may endeavor to search out things to come.” (Watchtower, June 15, 1922, page 187).

“The physical facts show beyond question of a doubt that 1914 ended the Gentile times; and as the Lord foretold, the old order is being destroyed by war, famine, pestilence, and revolution. The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures because it is fixed by the law God gave to Israel.” (Watchtower, September 1, 1922, page 262).

After the event when they have failed, they become ‘opinions’.

59

Goodbye and Thank You Jw Net (Last Post)

by Brother Mike in

jw
friends

i would like to thank everyone for the discussions that we've all had.

after all of them i have realized, all of you have made me realized that after all of the stuff i have been through, i just need a good friend.

and regardless of how hostile our discussion could get i have felt that you have all shared something with me that have helped me.

Ultimate Axiom

Stillin - I couldn't agree more.

59

Goodbye and Thank You Jw Net (Last Post)

by Brother Mike in

jw
friends

i would like to thank everyone for the discussions that we've all had.

after all of them i have realized, all of you have made me realized that after all of the stuff i have been through, i just need a good friend.

and regardless of how hostile our discussion could get i have felt that you have all shared something with me that have helped me.

Ultimate Axiom

Remember, Bro Mike, to be a JW you must not only put your full faith in Jehovah, you must also put your full faith in the Governing Body. You will not be disfellowshipped for lacking faith in Jehovah, but you could very well be for lacking faith in the GB.